I think our region has demonstrated well that the vast majority will be those of us who don’t work for the church leading worship (I can actually only think of 4 worship leaders in our region who work full time for the church & all of those have other responsibilities).
I think this question of the worship industry comes up more in other parts of the country where Christanity is the cool thing… where larger churches are more common & people are generally open to Christian/Americanity. In those places it is feasible to live off what you could make playing music in church or churches. OR feasible that the churches are large enough to pay for a full fledged worship pastor (with multiple responsibilities).
For most of us, it’s just not feasible.. which is good & bad… good because it keeps us humble & makes the roots go down deep as a servant.. bad because we don’t have the time/energy to focus on worship, building, writing etc.
The question for me is how popularization &cultural familiarity of the “worship industry”or even worship-style music impacts how/if people outside can connect with God. For example for many of the non-religious types around here the “worship industry” is laughable, over simplistic & part of THE problem of commercialism in America. The only place they see it is on late night infomercials completely out of context. & musically it’s so been done.
So for us to reach those people, it means saying… “actually, no.. that’s not what we’re about”.. & having them experience it localized & in context of the community life of our church, raw.. that it’s not American Idol with an Evangelical tinge. That it is something completely “other than”.
I can remember being a kid & first experiencing worship… and not having any cultural map to even put it on. I had the context of the local church & the movement, which were obviously indispensable, but I think that was good for me to figure out what exactly this was & what “it” was doing to me. I still am.
I think the key for us is to keep raising people up at the local level. If some of them end up working for the church & even become a name in the industry, good for them… but I think that’s the exception, not the rule. & if it becomes more common as our churches grow, atleast the roots of local humble service are sown.
I’m willing to bet that person in Kuwait is the same guy you look at everytime you come to this site (look about 200px to the right…).
We’ve got an international community here Randy… Jeremiah is in Kuwait… Jon (who took that photo) is back in Berlin… & I heard there was some talk about our little site in Estes last week…
If there are any other languages anyone needs, please just tell us & we’ll include the automatic translation.
I think the ideas laid out here are crucial for us to be thinking about if we’re going to effectively reach out to people who don’t normally go to church.
For us the question of how do we relate to people who may be checking out faith is key.
What do you guys (& gals) think? How are you doing this? How are you not?
Debbie, I think this a great idea. I suggest we keep the discussion going. Because nobody has commented in 2 weeks, though I’m going to unstick it. Feel free to re-stick it, if you think it should be up front.
This is a great discussion point Chris! For us here in Brooklyn the level people are given responsibility (including worship) is based on which direction they’re headed…
Dave S from the Boston Vineyard elegantly talks about this Centered Set approach here:
That being said, I think everyone who comes has a part to play… but that part may not be up front. If I remember right the original idea of “everyone gets to play” was that everyone can do the stuff of the kingdom (heal the sick, care for the poor, be ambassadors of the kingdom, etc), not that everyone at their current place in life is equipped to be up front.
But… the other part of “everyone gets to play”, is “the pay is the same” whether you’re the big time worship leader, or setting up chairs..
@sconely: I can see how you could miss it. Hopefully we don’t throw the baby out with the bath water as we continue to branch out with different styles & forms.
Eastern Crop 2010 Deadline extended
April 22nd, 2010 at 4:39 pmBob, email crop2010@vineyardeastworship.com, unless you’ve already gotten an answer back.
ProPresenter for Mac & Windows now!
April 8th, 2010 at 2:20 pmWhat’s everyone else using? Do you like it?
I didn’t know about Easy Worship till Randy posted about it…
Sunday worship sets
April 6th, 2010 at 3:17 pmEaster @ North Brooklyn Vineyard. We had worship interspersed with people sharing about things God was doing.
Bless His Name
Doxology
Christ Is Risen
Everlasting God
Forever You
Full Attention
Holy, Holy, Holy Lord
Inside Worship Podcast
April 6th, 2010 at 2:38 pmI think our region has demonstrated well that the vast majority will be those of us who don’t work for the church leading worship (I can actually only think of 4 worship leaders in our region who work full time for the church & all of those have other responsibilities).
I think this question of the worship industry comes up more in other parts of the country where Christanity is the cool thing… where larger churches are more common & people are generally open to Christian/Americanity. In those places it is feasible to live off what you could make playing music in church or churches. OR feasible that the churches are large enough to pay for a full fledged worship pastor (with multiple responsibilities).
For most of us, it’s just not feasible.. which is good & bad… good because it keeps us humble & makes the roots go down deep as a servant.. bad because we don’t have the time/energy to focus on worship, building, writing etc.
The question for me is how popularization &cultural familiarity of the “worship industry”or even worship-style music impacts how/if people outside can connect with God. For example for many of the non-religious types around here the “worship industry” is laughable, over simplistic & part of THE problem of commercialism in America. The only place they see it is on late night infomercials completely out of context. & musically it’s so been done.
So for us to reach those people, it means saying… “actually, no.. that’s not what we’re about”.. & having them experience it localized & in context of the community life of our church, raw.. that it’s not American Idol with an Evangelical tinge. That it is something completely “other than”.
I can remember being a kid & first experiencing worship… and not having any cultural map to even put it on. I had the context of the local church & the movement, which were obviously indispensable, but I think that was good for me to figure out what exactly this was & what “it” was doing to me. I still am.
I think the key for us is to keep raising people up at the local level. If some of them end up working for the church & even become a name in the industry, good for them… but I think that’s the exception, not the rule. & if it becomes more common as our churches grow, atleast the roots of local humble service are sown.
Inside Worship Podcast
April 6th, 2010 at 2:07 pmYou can listen to it here:
http://cdn2.libsyn.com/insideworship/01_Episode_32_-_Music_Industry_v._Contemporary_Worship_Part_1.mp3
Sunday worship sets
March 29th, 2010 at 8:32 pmPalm Sunday church@Trashbar:
Adoration
Sweetly Broken
This Is Love
Full Attention
What Joy Is Found
Clean
Sunday worship sets
March 25th, 2010 at 4:11 pmLast Sunday night:
40 – to start the service off…
Clean
The Blood of Jesus
Stand In Awe
Amazing Grace
Bless His Name
Diversity
March 10th, 2010 at 3:04 amI think we’re at a spot in our culture where diverse music is a big deal. Some interesting thoughts by Dave Schmeltzer & the Not Religious folks: http://notreligious.typepad.com/notreligious/2010/02/what-is-worship-supposed-to-accomplish.html
It seems that even in our churches, we were largely unable to pull it off before, but now people are ready…
Sunday worship sets
January 25th, 2010 at 11:01 am1/24/2010 church at Trash bar
Bless His Name
Full Attention
Sweetly Broken
Everything
What Joy is Found
Dwell
New 'Live Chat' & 'Translations' features on the site
January 25th, 2010 at 10:58 amI’m willing to bet that person in Kuwait is the same guy you look at everytime you come to this site (look about 200px to the right…).
We’ve got an international community here Randy… Jeremiah is in Kuwait… Jon (who took that photo) is back in Berlin… & I heard there was some talk about our little site in Estes last week…
If there are any other languages anyone needs, please just tell us & we’ll include the automatic translation.
Sunday worship sets
September 14th, 2009 at 9:38 pm@gitarjake & everyone else: I think the discussion on choosing songs will be really helpful to everyone… so I created another thread for it: http://www.vineyardeastworship.com/forum/leadership/how-do-you-choose-song-sets.html
let’s discuss…
Sunday worship sets
September 14th, 2009 at 4:46 pmSongs 9/14 at North Brooklyn Vineyard church @ trash bar:
Your Love is Better than Life (Ryan Delmore)
Everlasting God (Brenton Brown)
To Him Who Sits on the Throne
I Will Trust You (Lizotte)
The Child in Everyone (Lizotte)
Leading Centered-Set Worship Music
September 11th, 2009 at 11:11 pmI think the ideas laid out here are crucial for us to be thinking about if we’re going to effectively reach out to people who don’t normally go to church.
For us the question of how do we relate to people who may be checking out faith is key.
What do you guys (& gals) think? How are you doing this? How are you not?
mentors
August 31st, 2009 at 12:13 pmDebbie, I think this a great idea. I suggest we keep the discussion going. Because nobody has commented in 2 weeks, though I’m going to unstick it. Feel free to re-stick it, if you think it should be up front.
Everyone gets to play...but when?
August 31st, 2009 at 11:58 amThis is a great discussion point Chris! For us here in Brooklyn the level people are given responsibility (including worship) is based on which direction they’re headed…
Dave S from the Boston Vineyard elegantly talks about this Centered Set approach here:
That being said, I think everyone who comes has a part to play… but that part may not be up front. If I remember right the original idea of “everyone gets to play” was that everyone can do the stuff of the kingdom (heal the sick, care for the poor, be ambassadors of the kingdom, etc), not that everyone at their current place in life is equipped to be up front.
But… the other part of “everyone gets to play”, is “the pay is the same” whether you’re the big time worship leader, or setting up chairs..
Sunday worship sets
August 31st, 2009 at 11:35 am@sconely: I can see how you could miss it. Hopefully we don’t throw the baby out with the bath water as we continue to branch out with different styles & forms.
Sunday worship sets
August 31st, 2009 at 11:34 amYesterday…
Shine (Vineyard UK)
Full Attention (Riddle)
Child of God (Vineyard UK)
At the Cross (Butler)
Stand In Awe (Riddle)
I Love Your Presence